Nahanni: Hi, it’s Nahanni Rous with Can We Talk? It has now been almost two weeks since October 7, the day Hamas terrorists murdered more than 1,400 people in Israel, most of them civilians. More than 3,000 Palestinians have since been killed by Israel’s air strikes in Gaza. Hamas continues to fire rockets at Israel. Hundreds of thousands of Israelis have been mobilized for reserve duty. There’s fighting in the West Bank and flare-ups with Hezbollah on Israel’s northern border. Israelis and Palestinians bury their family members. Meanwhile, Hamas is holding Israeli hostages in Gaza, including infants, children, and elderly people. Israel has released the names of 203 of them.

Some people are still unaccounted for. Among them is Vivian Silver. She’s 74 years old, from Kibbutz Be’eri, on the Gaza border. Vivian is an active member of Women Wage Peace, a movement of thousands of Israeli and Palestinian women demanding a peaceful solution to the conflict and security for all.

I interviewed Vivian for Can We Talk? several years ago. Later in this episode, we’ll hear parts of that interview. But first, let’s talk with one of the last people who was in touch with Vivian—her dear friend Ariella Giniger, whom she met through Women Wage Peace. Ariella lives in Kfar Shmaryahu, north of Tel Aviv. She last spoke with Vivian on the day of the Hamas attack—the morning of October 7.

Ariella Giniger: Uh, I was texting with Vivian from about 6:30 in the morning. Now, that's not outstanding. We—many times, I write to her or call her and say there is a red alert, and she says, “Oh, really? I didn't hear.” And she goes into the air raid shelter. And, uh, I texted her, and she texted back, and at a certain point she writes, “You’ll say I’m crazy, but I hear shooting outside.” I said, “Oh, come on.” And she says, “It's not only shooting, it sounds like a machine gun.” So I said, “Well, close everything real well.” And then we spoke, also, for a little while, you know, to keep her company, because she's alone. Her husband passed away six years ago, maybe seven already. And um…you know, we kept on talking and texting.

And at a certain point, she writes, I hear them coming in. Don't call. I'm all shaking. If it happens again, I'm gonna bring a knife in here with me. Now, this is her sense of humor at this point, because she is a very, very short little lady with white hair. I don't know what she's going to do with a knife. And uh…ever since then, we didn't hear anything from her.

We all got that text, like a bunch of close friends, at 10:52. And I think at 11:00 she had a short call with her son. And since then, we don't know what happened to her.

Her house is completely burnt down. Really to the level of ashes. But, uh, not only the soldiers have gone through it, also somebody we know: her in-law, the father of her daughter in law. So, she's not there. And she was not found anywhere else. And we…I find it ridiculous to say, but we hope she's in Gaza. Because then she's alive.

Nahanni: But she is not on the list.

Ariella: No. No. Definitely not. Not recognized on any list. No.

Nahanni: You know, it strikes me when you're talking: Like, you're sort of speaking about these events as if—I mean, I'm sure it doesn't feel normal—but you're speaking about it with such clarity and you sound so calm.

Ariella: I'm devastated. I'm really devastated. I lost weight. I'm a person who eats a lot all the time. I can't eat. Um…I'm devastated. It breaks my heart. Vivian slept here last, four days before. On the third, the night of the third of October, she slept here. We did yoga in the morning. We drove together to Jerusalem to a march for peace. Had women from 20 countries. Had 200 Palestinian women. And, uh, we have a picture together marching there. And then there was another event at the Dead Sea, and I had to go back because I had to take my grandchildren up north. And we separated, and I haven't seen her since. And it's terrible.

Nahanni: I can't even imagine. I don't even know how a person really copes with a situation like this.

Ariella: I think by being together, seeing her kids so strong. Chen came from the United States, and they’re staying together at his brother's. And…they really go out of their way. They're very private people, and they are interviewing and talking and running from one place to the other. Incredibly. Really, they're…doing everything possible.       

I can't wait to joke with her about it. I know she's going to say, “I didn't believe they could do so much.” And uh, because she's a speaker. She speaks, she goes, she travels abroad. [And] so on. They're, they're just amazing. They're really her kids.

Nahanni: Vivian has been speaking out about the need for a peaceful resolution to the conflict for years. I met Vivian at the Knesset, Israel’s parliament, in 2017. It was three years after Israel’s 2014 war with Gaza, which was the impetus for founding Women Wage Peace. Over a hundred Arab and Jewish women from the organization had come to the Knesset to advocate for women’s involvement in politics and diplomacy. We talked in the lobby before the event began. Keep in mind, as you listen, that the recording is six years old.

Vivian Silver: Okay. My name is Vivian Silver. I live on Kibbutz Be'eri, which is right on the border of the Gaza Strip. I've lived in Israel for 45 years and made aliyah to a kibbutz, to Kibbutz Gezer, in 1974. And I've been a peace activist all of my life, even demonstrating in New York before I made aliyah 45 years ago.

However, when I turned 65, I became a grandmother and retired all the same week. I decided that I wasn't going to continue more of the same. Because we clearly hadn't succeeded in bringing peace and ending the terrible conflict. And when I, um, spoke to Irit Tamir, who was the founder of Women Wage Peace, as she was conceptualizing what she wanted to do, it made sense to me that this was not going to be more of the same.That is, [as]opposed to being another very tiny left-wing organization or movement that was stuck on all of the specific solutions that each organization has for peace in the Middle East, this was going to be different. This was saying, what we need is to change the paradigm. The paradigm that we have been taught for the last 70 years—that only war will bring peace—clearly hasn't succeeded. And the paradigm has to be changed to…only a political agreement that will bring security. And since security is in the interest of everybody—Jews and Arabs, Palestinians, Israelis, right-wing, left-wing, center, uh, religious, secular, and the whole gamut—then that seemed to be a way to break through the stalemate and open up the concept of a political agreement being acceptable because it was meeting a common need.

That's what drew me to Women Wage Peace. And so I've been involved really, uh, from the beginning. Since I live in the south, we were on the receiving end of all of the thousand women who came down from all over the country. It was mind- blowing, I have to say. None of us expected those kinds of numbers. It wasn't organized. It was a spontaneous move on the part of women who had gone through a deep trauma from the last war in 2014 in Gaza. That was a war that was just different. I can't analyze why. I mean, I’ve gone through them all. But this one just broke us. And not only broke those of us who lived on the border of the Gaza Strip and whose population was running to the shelters constantly. It was breaking women all over the country whose sons, daughters, husbands, brothers were being called up to the war, realizing this was serious, this…They could die. And enough. Enough. If the past wars hadn't brought a solution, why was this war going to be any different?

So that's what Women Wage Peace has undertaken: to change the paradigm, to reach out, and to present ourselves as a movement that anyone can join.

There's clearly a need for people to change their perspective of despair and lack of hope to feeling that there is something to be done, and I want to be part of that doing.

Nahanni: Thank you so much.

Nahanni: That was Vivian Silver in 2017. In the days since Vivian disappeared, it increasingly feels like what she stood for has also vanished. I asked Vivian’s friend Ariella what the days since October 7 have been like for her.

Ariella: I, uh...I'm really speechless. I don't have words to describe the feeling. I don't know that I can even feel. It's a nightmare. It's really—maybe that's the best description: a nightmare.

Nahanni: And what has your daily life looked like? What have you been actually doing?

Ariella: In the past twelve days?

Nahanni: Yeah. We've spent all the time trying to get in touch with Vivian. I have another good friend on Kibbutz Be'eri. And he was also missing, but he was found dead. Um, they found the bodies of him and his wife in two separate places. Still looking for the son.

And all we were doing the last twelve days was trying to help contact the media all over the world. And uh, and also trying to provide some support to my family whenever they come over. You know, cooking and letting the kids run around in the grass. And, uh, live a little bit of a normal life. There's no school. That's what we've been doing.

Nahanni: I'm so sorry to hear about your friend.

Ariella: Yeah…it's terrible.

Nahanni:  Um, can you say a little bit more about Vivian for people who don't know her?

Ariella: Okay, Vivian is 74 years old. We were just talking how she's going to celebrate her 75th birthday, which is going to be in February. She has two amazing sons. One is Yonatan, who lives in Tel Aviv with three children. And the other one is Chen, who is in the University of Connecticut with one child. Both have spouses.

And Vivian became a very, very close friend to me. Our families know each other. My children are really in love with her. She's really a very special person, and she has an amazing record of doing. She's a big doer. She moved to Israel 50 years ago with her husband, and they were with a group who founded Kibbutz Gezer.

When she moved from Kibbutz Be’eri she had an organization that was in contact with people from Gaza. And when that stopped because they couldn't go on, she started the Negev Institute for Mutual Living, together with Amal El-Saneh, who is a Bedouin from the Negev. She is Dr. El-Saneh. And they were the CEOs of this for ten years. And when she retired, she joined Women Wage Peace. And she started being very active.

As a matter of fact, I was very, very active up until a few years ago. I'm losing count of the time. And then I stepped aside. But she didn't give up. She said, “We have no option of not working for the peace.”

Um, I'm sure…I'm sure she would—if she could hear this—she would want people to talk, to negotiate, to go through diplomatic channels, and that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to raise the issue all over the world.

She's a Canadian citizen. She came from Canada originally. I understand—somebody told me there is not a person in Canada who doesn't recognize her face. And I would like it to be like this all over the world.

Nahanni: And what about Women Wage Peace? What kinds of things are you doing?

Ariella: Well, Women Wage Peace had this conference three days before the 7th of October, on the 4th. It started in Jerusalem and then it went on in the Dead Sea. There were hundreds of women and, uh, they put up, like, a negotiation table in the Dead Sea. It was made by an artist and, uh, and it was like a physical thing that there was room around the table for everybody.

Because one of the things we say is that they don't have enough women, especially in the government today. There are hardly any women in the government of Israel today. Just incredible.

Nahanni: Do you have any hope that the government is going to do what they can to bring people back from Gaza?

Ariella: I think we’ll have to work very hard so that they’ll start by trying to bring people back. I hope they negotiate to get all the hostages. All of them: not only the women and children, also the men and also the soldiers. Which is, you know…they consider that at a different level. Because soldiers are youngsters, are people. They are all children of people, they have families. It’s a wound that spreads.

Nahanni: You said this a little bit before, um, but what do you think Vivian would say right now?

Ariella: She would say, use diplomatic channels, negotiate, get out the hostages. By the way, we are all sure that if we could get her out alone, she won't go. She's a woman of values.

Nahanni: Well, I don't know what to say. Hoping for the best, obviously.

Ariella: I'm telling you, there are no words for this thing. Just no words. You know, growing up, there were a lot of people from the Holocaust around us, growing up in Israel. And they never talked, and I never understood this. Now I understand. Now I can understand it. Didn't think about it until now. Now I understand why they didn't talk.

Nahanni: Not because they didn't want to, but because there were no words.

Ariella: Yeah. I think they really knew that they cannot explain what happened there. And they were right. Okay…

Nahanni: Okay. Thank you so much for sharing all this.

Ariella: Let's hope for better days.

Vivian Silver has been missing since October 7. We pray for her safe return, the safe return of all of the hostages held in Gaza, and for better days. Special thanks to Ariella Giniger for speaking with us. Thanks also to Anat Langer-Gal. Our team includes Jen Richler and Judith Rosenbaum. I’m Nahanni Rous. Until next time.

On November 13, Vivian Silver was declared dead after her remains were found at her home. May her memory be a blessing.